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Re: DE balance
Stun proc weapon will never be balanced. To be 100% honest, that is one of the worst ideas I've ever seen anywhere in a Lineage forum.
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Re: DE balance
Stun proc edo... play a knight instead? Or even a prince ? Hopefully we get prince stun in the future ^_^
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Re: DE balance
How about we increase the land rate of DE sleep, as it is now it's pretty useless
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Re: DE balance
Increase land rate of sleep, remove dark stone cost on AB and DE will have a much better time playing.
TBH, if I played DE i'd be pretty pissed I have to AFK turn stones over night almost every night just to make sure I have ingredients to play normal. No other class has to do this, they just go to the NPC and turn in BBS for their materials. This coupled with the fact that you have to shop mode overnight to sell things if you don't have an extra computers puts DE players at another disadvantage.
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Re: DE balance
So let me briefly recap:
-you want Braves
-you want AoE and Stun proc weapons
-you want your spells to last longer and cost less or no ressources
Sorry to tell you that pal, but what you want to play is a Knight.
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Re: DE balance
Here are the real issues with DE:
1. In PvP scenarios they can't immobilize their target while Knights/Illus can Stun and DKs can use Thunder Grab. On Zelgo, we discussed about adding a snare proc to the Fid Edo, which was a great idea since you still can venz or use pots through that kind of debuff but that would make DEs more viable in fights.
2. Turning stones is indeed annoying and takes a lot of a player's time but on the other hand, the profit on Kaiser Stones/Weapons is definitely worth it. What I think should be done is to replace Dark Stones to -> Bring Stones for buffs instead.
3. Armor Break MUST be available in PvE, especially against bosses, otherwise, I don't see the point of playing a class if it's best ability is being deactivated when it matters the most (it's like removing CB for Knights against bosses lmao). You can leave Dragons immune to AB if it's the only issue. PvP wise, AB being 8 seconds is fair enough but I just feel like a DE would currently waste more time on trying to land AB than actually hit his target lol. What about adding a flat rate that ignores CM scrolls and maybe add a longer cooldown to the spell so it can't be spammed, just like the way Stun works.
4. Some people already mentionned it, the problem isn't the damage output on the highest procs, but the one on the lower rolls. Base damage could be increased a little so that way a DE would hit stronger than a Knight at any given moment.
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Re: DE balance
Hahaha
Edo that lands stun. I am playing elf my first time in my lineage.. Euhhh.. Career. Played knight at live.
But I loved DEs. I even leveled a DE to 68 live.
Bring it on. Edo that stuns.
Lets play just one class!!!
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Re: DE balance
You want DE balance with what? You mean that DE is more played?
The developers, that understand the game, are already addressing this. Ronde's Edo.
Everyone had a AoE weapon or way to power level but DE.
To PvP you need Level and equipment. Addressing the AoE problem, DEs have a chance to shine leveling again.
Still, like I said multiple times. Because knight has STUN and CB in its kit. HE is the melee king. Nothing will change that.
The player playing DE needs far more skill to attain same results as a Knight.
On the other hand, I don't understand why they didn't open at least Winter Spear as an alternative option.
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Re: DE balance
I'm not saying I want all the things suggested. I am just tossing ideas at the board and seeing what sticks. Collaboration is the only way DE's will see any changes. So while I thank everyone for their posts yall could lessen up on the mocking, so we can keep this productive.
I believe changing darkstones to bringstones for requirements would be a good idea, since you can pull them from the blood stones like Mgems and Sgems and not need to spend all night crafting dark stones.
With that I also believe everyone seems to be in agreeance that boosting the lower end damage would be very beneficial. Charles can we get your thoughts on these subjects?
I fight for the rights of all dark skinned elfs.
#DE'sMatter
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Re: DE balance
My thoughts are that this has been one of the better, and more constructive suggestion threads and is exactly why I created thiis forum, and what I had hoped would happen. Thank you to everyone for their thoughts. I am just finishing up a few things, but do fully intend to review this and do some testing. I will not be ignoring this thread, or any good suggestion thread.
GM Charles - Global Admin & Developer - Server / Website
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Re: DE balance
Thsi is Lineage. Mocking is part of it :) And I was only half joking. DE my favourite class. I just don't play it. I mean I like the concept and the skill-set.
But you are right about the post. So back on track.
- Upper lower dice roll on damage. This, sadly, it's probably not viable due how Damage function works. Let's say you take half of the roll damage and add it as fix damage. Then, the upper rolls would pop muuuuuuuuuuuuuch often as well. Also, Edo would benefit even more largely from that change than Claws.
Maybe a 2 damage bonus substracted from dice...
- Snare on Fid Edo sounds great. At least, it would make it worth it to craft. But... How many players would be able to? So basically, you would not buff the class but some privilaged.
- Beefing STR bonus: so as it stands (at least on older source code), STR bonus is applied AFTER burning spirit and double break. This means, STR bonus is never multiplied.
Putting one multiplier of those BEFORE adding STR bonus would help a lot to STR DEs. But then, what about ALL players who didn't go STR because of this. Would be totally unfair.
This would buff both lower and upper rolls. Be aware.
- Power leveling. AoE weapon that is available to DE would help as well. Giving access to Winterspear may be.
- Adding Dark blind again. Utility DE is underrated. Sleep and Blind are great for PvP and PvE. But, not sure if a new skill lvl 1 can be added without taking away the other.
- I agree on AB used on PvE. Just add the flag of immune to some NPCs. This should be great, but requires effort.
- Reducing the (material) cost of some spells may help as well.
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Re: DE balance
This is a fantastic thread with some great suggestions and I have one to offer.
Let me preface this with the fact that I am no expert, I am merely positing a few thoughts:
Instead of increasing the low end damage or giving DE's a brave pot, would it be possible to treat Edoryus and Claws with the same swing speed as daggers? Given that a DE is swinging two weapons at once, at least conceptually, I can imagine getting more hits with two weapons than one? This way we're not adding more resources to manage (brave pot), nor having to tune damage numbers (increase minimum hit dice roll or however it was proposed, apologies).
As to the matter of AoE, the Ronde Edoryu upgrade sounds great, except for the obvious... 1.05% drop chance from one boss. I, unfortunately, do not get to spend as many hours as I would like to on Lineage, and in my pretty much month long tenure, I have seen DK only once (stood no chance against him). Would/Could we add the weapon to more drop tables than just DK? Or perhaps increase the drop rate? Having tried it on Test, it seemed considerably weaker than even a Brave Edo, of which getting a +9 is much easier than the Ronde, simply for the sake of accessibility. Assuming the AoE proc is strong, not DK Sword strong, but perhaps 50/60 per proc, that would be nice and would off-set the fact that one would run around with a +7 for a while before venturing to +8/9/10 territory. Also, seemed as though the proc rate was non-existent or at least felt less than Thebe's procs; perhaps increase the proc rate?
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Re: DE balance
I agree that one of the major problems with making the ronde edo into the DE version of the winter spear is accessibility. That is a problem that can be solved though by tweaking drop rates appropriately.
I've often thought that one of the problems with a DE, and Illusionist, by extension, comes from the fact that a lot of their defense is predicated on dodge. And, well, if you don't dodge those hits, you're taking a lot more damage. Just think about what it is like when a DE has immune, and you can just see a dramatic difference in survivability because, in most pvp situations, you're not dodging all that much, AND in high-end PVE situations, you're not dodging that much. Hell, I don't think CB can even be dodged.
This reason right here is why in Diablo 3 they took away most if not all dodge buffs and replaced them with straight dmg mitigation buffs because dodge will never be a reliable tanking mechanism because as soon as you get hit, dodge doesn't matter.
This may be moving toward a more "hard ac" vs "soft ac" problem. But the DE is also giving up his shield, which lowers his ac, which means he takes more damage and gets hit more often on top of his soft ac.
Both Elves and Mages can mitigate this problem by being at range, which is why in fights both PVE and PVP, a lot of the elf/mage strategy is to hit from far away and burn down the target before they get to them. DE just doesn't have this option.
They have to get in close, which means they risk getting stunned/hit. So, their entire utility comes from around being able to deal a ton more damage while being hit than they take, and that is just not going to happen when their entire defense is built on dodging hits that can't be dodged, and even if they can be dodged, they have less HP and general survivability.
If you look at illu, the problem is more extreme, but they have a stun so that makes it worthwhile to have them there...
The other issue is sorta... Final Burn. The last time I played DE final burn pretty much killed you and was easily mitigated by MR. Isn't it different on current live so it acts a lot more like how the Illu joy spell works? A portion of the hp/mp is used as damage? Giving DE a way to hit REALLY HARD one time to start a fight and then capitalize with their current high damage could definitely change their utility in PVP situations. Sort of like a melee range destroy.
After all, the reason stun is so effective is that it keeps your opponent there. You don't need to do that if you can hit him really hard really fast.
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Re: DE balance
Comparing the Ronde Edo to the Wind Axe, the Ronde is significantly harder to get, yet has almost the lowest damage rate.
The wind axe as comparison is almost the heaviest hitting axe, and just takes farm time to get brave crystals to craft. Which anyone can do regardless of level.
I think the Ronde should be adjusted higher in damage and accessability.
I fight for the rights of all dark skinned elfs.
#DE'sMatter
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Re: DE balance
Another thing, if possible, a revision to Shadow Fang. Would it be possible to have a buff icon for Shadow Fang, and also limit other spells (read lesser) over writing this? For example, a DE casts SF, an buff icon appears; if bless weapon or holy weapon get cast, an error message pops up that a higher level spell is active. Not sure how it interacts with Fire Weapon/Bless of Fire, but if it compounds all the better!
I know there's a pvp element of casting holy weapon on a DE to mitigate it, but I would argue (perhaps erroneously) that a positive buff should comound another positive buff, not replace it.
*Edit* Didn't see that Eric wrote a thread about SF, guess this concatenates it to the "root cause".