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Re: Boss camping improvement
After reading few post, I'm gonna develope more my suggestions about the improvements to aboid Boss camping and the reasons because I think needs be done.
Omni, Gilderoy, I think you are forgetting that the game finality is not only PvP. There is 2 ways of play in Lineage PvP or PvE.
There is people like me that plays just for PvE. There is some ways to play on PvE first is the classic solo, where you get monsters to kill that can have drops more or less rare, you get your experience and you make stronger your character just to go around hunting better. After that, there is another way in PvE, make partyes with your friends go to any hard spot to farm (as soe, TOI 8xF, TOI9Xf, lasta, etc...) or the best part make a party to do something that is supposed that you can't do solo and here the part of the "Boss" make sense.
This game is a MMORPG the core concept of this game is interact with players to do thinks, and here the part of the Bosses make sense, because it is supposed to has some players to kill bosses. When Most of the lineage bosses arived Lineage, them wasn't easy to kill solo, when the people overleveled bosses with years and posteriors updates, the bosses started to be soloables, but in the start of the game, people can't even kill baphomet solo,
This is a private server where is easy to level compared to live server, and that's ok for me (because the major people playing nowadays has adult obligations not like 20 years ago where we was younger teenagers with nothing more to do) but this fact has accentuated the problem of the "easy" bosses, now all can have level 72+ making most of the bosses a joke. This affects in negative for the PvE experience.
Omni you just said you Killed just 2 kurtz and 3 AG in 6 months. I don't have counted but probably I killed around 400 bosses solo or with help, since the server started, I like the part of go to hunt bosses and for me is the funny of lineage is enter in discord, find my friends in the bp and make team hunts.
So, for me it's a pain in the Ass when I see people that kills bosses and don't do nothing more than left a player in a place in invis and wait until the boss spawns cause he can solo them.
For me it's very important that we have options to balance the gameplay in PvE, like is for you to get balance in PvP.
Imagine that situation: A playable new class character that has a skill called "death" that can kill a PvP-target in any place in the screen, just clicking, has no delay, no range limit, no mana/hp compsumption, you just target the man and he dies. This is fair? Probably 2 thinks will happen people greed will made them choice that character first, and after a bit, people will rage and say that needs to be balanced and people will say that it's not funny to play a game like this. The same goes with PvE needs be balanced to aboid "exploited situations" that bores other because they are not fair, specially in a server with a closed community.
Now the part of the drop:
We are not asking to solve that cause the bosses drop, we are doing for the fun of the game, at least me. But I think it's not a good idea put cb, destroy or other stuff easy to get in the game, cause this can unbalance the pvp game or the long-time-play making easy to get endgame items.
On the other side shorten the boss timer or randomize more it's not a good idea, we have a big spawn windows between 2.5 to 3.5h per boss and the same non spawn window, that is great because sometimes we need stop hunting bosses too for do other thinks, then the "not spawn window" is needed too.
Finally I undeerstand that some people wants too to kill solo some bosses that's why I don't propoused to stronger all of them, just few with "major" drops, that are very easy to kill, like demon, beleth, ice demon, diamond, Varlok, death, chaos and bapho, and specially are easy to camp, we can leave toi bosses, mambos, caspas, de's, etc, as easy bosses to solo and make the other strong enough to need a big party, to improve the quality of the gameplay.
Thats my opinion, and I know that some will say it's crazy, but the fact is a think like this can stop the boss camping and reduce the RMT.
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Re: Boss camping improvement
It sounds like the solution you want for boss camping is an area with mini bosses that have boss drop, like Devil King zone. That's a lot of custom, which I have no issue with but I don't think the GMs want to take the server in that direciton.
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Re: Boss camping improvement
I'm sorry Shitcoins, but I think you didn't understand what I'm suggesting.
We are arguing about the problem of boss camping and the problem that brings to game.
In first place I said I'm agree with Darkjustice and his suggestion about a timer.
In fact that solution has a problem too, you can use a "bot/macro" to walk again to the boss after you get kicked from the spawn place, but I think a bot it's easy to track for the GM.
I suggested too other solutions to reduce the boss camping:
1- Just One client opened.
2- Forbide the "afk camping" with a penalty of ban for the main character.
3- Put a timer as Darkjustice said of 5m-10m to kill the boss or get kicked.
And after that I suggested a Hardcore solution (that goes more with me and the way I do the thinks in life) based on the next premise:
If you can't solo the bosses = You don't camp the bosses
That's why I said: Hey! Make the bosses stronger! No more camping!
But not all just the ones with major drop that are a joke to kill them.
Nowadays even Grim can be soloed, this is hard to solo, and just few people has the habitily to do it, but the others...
So again my suggestion, improve PvE making fun again the adventure of go to hunt a boss increasing the difficulty enough to made necessary go in party with few people (even that means one of your friends get crazy in discord lol).
At least we can try making just one or two bosses superstrong, during few weeks to see what happens.
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Re: Boss camping improvement
a lot of people use a 2nd computer/laptop to camp bosses, not a 2nd client.
so limiting an IP or computer to 1 client isn't going to work. And what about people that use buffers?
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Re: Boss camping improvement
Do not forget that live server average level is much lower than here. and the drop rate is much lower in other region.
I am going to agree that boss camping MIGHT need a fix. BUT I do not want to see 90% of knight walking around with CB or every mage has a destroy. If you adding this rare item to the drop list, it will have chain effect on the market and class balance.
DO NOT FORGET THIS SERVER IS MEANT TO BE LONG TERM.
I kind of like the idea to make the boss stronger and harder to kill. Strong enough that you have to call pledge to help. (love the pledge hunt like old time) TBH, this is a private server with mod. exp. everyone is very high level in short period of time compare to live. you can basically solo most of the boss here. This is one of the reason, 1 person can have a camper looking spawn and he can solo boss when it spawn. But with very stronger boss, they still have to call pledge help to kill boss and it will take at least few minutes extra from them.
Stronger boss also allow more interaction between player and pledge (PK), and this kind of interaction can prolong the life of the server.
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Re: Boss camping improvement
I've been thinking all the day, and yes bosses don't need go stronger as dragons, but I think a good suggestion is find a formula similar to Thebes bosses.
As you know there is no campers on thebes, why? Because they can't kill them solo. You need a big party to kill them and it's great because they can drop some of the best in gam'e items like the rings.
So why the people can't kill them solo? Because they have and insane hp and a insane hp regen and mp and mp regen
So my suggestion increase these stats proportionally to the dificulty/drops boss to see what happens.
Here we go:
I'm gonna start with a easy point: Grim Reaper can be soloed, so his stats:
HP 14000 Hp Regen 525 MP 2400 MP Regen 525
These are not enough to stop campers and real money traders. And if we put similar conditions only win rmt players
So needs be hard
On the other side Thebes Bosses can't be soloed usually needs a party of 6 to 10 people, so his stats:
HP 20000 Hp regen 5000 MP 100 Mp regen 20
So needs be between Grim and Thebes.
Here my suggestions:
BAPHOMET:
Actual: HP 3000 HP regen 300 MP 350 MP regen 300
Suggested: HP 15000 HP regen 2000 MP 1000 MP regen 400
BELETH:
Actual: HP 2100 HP regen 380 MP 350 MP regen 380
Suggested: HP 15000 HP regen 2000 MP 1000 MP regen 400
DEMON:
Actual: HP 6000 HP regen 285 MP 250 MP regen 350
Suggestion: HP 17000 HP regen 3000 MP 1500 MP regen 600
ICE DEMON:
Actual: HP 10000 HP regen 100 MP 500 MP regen 100
Suggested: HP 17000 HP regen 3000 MP 1500 MP regen 500
VARLOK:
Actual: HP 20000 HP regen 300 MP 300 MP regen 300
Suggested: HP 20000 HP regen 4000 MP 1500 MP regen 600
DIAMOND GOLEM:
Actual: HP 20000 HP regen 250 MP 140 MP regen 50
Suggested: HP 20000 HP regen 4000 MP 500 MP regen 150
ICE QUEEN:
Actual: HP 15000 HP regen 150 MP 1000 MP regen 100
Suggested: HP 18000 HP regen 4000 MP 500 MP regen 300
*And add destroy to this one
Finally why don't "revamp" all the bosses, because some people likes too to kill some bosses solo, so leave others like toi, caspas, dk, kurtz, etc as they are now, but this ones that I suggested to increase the difficulty has great drops, are the ones more "AFK-camped" and doesn't has any sense that bosses that drop destroy/cb/demon staff/beleth boots/beleth staff/bapho armor can be soloed.
I'm not pretty sure how it works the "spell cast" on bosses so I don't increased so much the MP/MP regen on my suggestions, to avoid triple destroy casting of bosses or thinks like that.
That's my suggestion for a better PvE experience.
With love to campers/rmt players.
Ignacio
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Re: Boss camping improvement
I don't particularly think Bapho/Beleth need to be included on a revamp list. Their drops are not monetarily or functionally better than Sword of Kurtz, Fire Sword of Death Knight, Edoryu of Ronde, Cap of Merkyor, Cap of Baltuzar, Sandals of Dark Elder, Ring of Ancient Giant, etc. They're all in that middle-ground category that is probably fine for those easily accessible bosses that can net more casual players and noobs some quick cash. If you're looking at revamping bosses that truly drop END GAME loot, then I think you could reasonably add Lich to that list. L4 bosses should be left alone because there are plenty of reasons that they're challenging enough as they are (difficult to get to, lots of PVP, mostly worthless loot, etc.).
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Re: Boss camping improvement
Grim, Lich and some other TOI bosses were revamped before launch. A lot of bosses are already harder than they are 'supposed' to be. Just making sure that is known. They arent default.
GM Charles - Global Admin & Developer - Server / Website
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Re: Boss camping improvement
Do not adjust boss strength, they are fine....whats the point i even play and lvl if i cant solo a boss at lv75+....
1. Revamp the boss tumer
2. Wait for dragon raid and tikal patch, add reasonable item/skill drops to dragons
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Re: Boss camping improvement
Every post I'm more convinced that we are sailing in the good direction with the Boss-Upgrade.
I'm gonna explain my last session of play: AFK camper in Beleth, AFK camper in AG, AFK camper in Ice Demon and another AFK camper in Ken&Cerenis. And some of them once kill one of the camped bosses tele to another (I know them, who are the main character behind and I tracked other days his movements and routines).
To Gilderoy:
Yes probably you have a good point here, and Bapho and Beleth don't need a revamp, in fact if you see in my suggestions, they are the ones that I suggested to increase less hp. I suggested because they are AFK-camped, that's why I'm doubting if they need a increase or no.
About Lich, as I said in previous post I don't want to ruin all the "solo-play" experience that's why I'm only suggesting to make stronger some concrete bosses. I think people that likes to have the "ultimate challenge" with a boss they can "hard-solo" needs 2 bosses hard with good drops. Here we have 2 options: Grim and Lich. I don't know how they do, but there are at least 2 characters in game that can kill solo them, Innovation and NRG, I saw them checking and killing, so I assume they can solo, and if they can others can try too.
To Charles:
Yes I remember that in the start of the server you increased the difficulty of Grim and Lich, but after few months of the server running, and now that the people has high levels, and now that we have a proliferation of the campers that is getting the server I can say that makes sense to increase the bosses HP/HP Regen, to improve the PvE experience.
Aniways I have a question: I suggested to increase too mana and mana regen on bosses, because if there gonna be like 5~10 people hitting the boss, the boss needs mana to fight against more people. My ask is: if we increase the mana they will cast like crazy? For example 3 destroys in a row?
I'm not necessarily asking to make them stronger increasing base stats like str/wis/int.. or level, or even increasing the power of they magics. I'm just suggesting increase the HP and the HP regen to break the option of make them soloable. Including in soloable concept points like control 2 pc and "curse" the boss with one and full attack with the other. My idea is increase enough to need 4~6 people minium to end the boss. And this will help too to increase the colaboration between the members of the bp.
To Omni:
What is fine? People AFK-Camping the bosses to get all the items? Why they need to get desesperatly the bosses that they even put a camper? Probably because they are behind RMT. But I'm not gonna use this argument, I have more to say why it's not fine:
It's not fine, because if people can afk-Camp/solo the bosses just a few get the bosses. Is not fine, because if you are trying to get an item and you see always the same guy get the boss you get bored. It's not fine because lineage is a MMORPG and it's supposed to need colaboration and team play to kill a boss, not solo them. It's not fine, because in the game we have a ton of bosses and just 8 of them needs teamplay: the 4 dragons, the 2 thebes and lich and Grim (and lich and grim can be soloed...) and it should be in the other side, a ton of bosses and just 8 of them can be soloed.
The point on get level 75 is not to solo all the bosses, is to be strong enough to go places where you can't go at level 50, to kill easy some mobs, to do pvp, to be strong enough to kill with your bp mates hard bosses, etc... Be level 75 is not a excuse or a point to not increase the difficulty of the bosses.
About the revamp of the Boss timer: This not solves anything, a man that leaves a AFK-Camper will have easy, because he will know better when the boss spawns and the others will need check even more the boss, not leaving time to do other thinks.
All of us are waiting fo tikal/dragon updates, but this will not solve anything again. We have a problem now, it's called AFK-Bosscamping, and we have that problem because the bosses that are camped are very easy to kill solo and drop great items. That is in part because some people, are looking to get the big items for sell for real money. So, we need stop the problem now, because is starting to affect the numbers of players in the server, and it can generate a longterm illness.
To all:
I have been talking with some other bp members and other people and said that seems a good idea. It should be great to put your opinions here, because a change like that will affect all the server.
Thank you for read!
Ignacio
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Re: Boss camping improvement
At the end of the day you have to think if you want a game for solo players or for bp players. You can't have both at 100%, you can also get into some middleplace.
Zhin was right in saying that you can have more than one computer, so limiting the number of open accounts is not a solution. Implementing a timer is not either a solution, since I can have 10 different characters and use one different for every cycle.
Implementing a short timer, like the knight's quest, could be a plausible solution, but I think it is easier if the boss spawns in different places of the area. Since the boss can spawn in a screen where the camper is not placed. ToI bosses are not passively camped because of this. Caspa group was like this in some live servers.
I wouldn't mind to increase the difficulty of the bosses because I'm a party hunter, but I can understand not everyone likes this playstyle, but the camper's situation I think it should be addressed if possible. My suggestion, as I said, is to make the spawning area larger.
Now I go back check the diamond golem, if the camper is not there anymore I'll know it is ended.
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Re: Boss camping improvement
Buff all bosses to group kill like thebe and dragons but make sure they all drop desteoy and cb, all boss weapons ar high rate too....since they take a group of people to kill.....
If you change one boss, might as well change all bosses....they should all be same
The fact is we are only talkig about few bosses with best item/skill drop....how about add mobs spawn to all those areas like toi for instance and all mobs aggro to invis....or make the bosses spawn with random regen, ranging from 1 regen to 5000 regen....
And whats stopping you guys making an alt and camp bosses??? Same with people play 5 clients with buffers on, it is more of a personal preference, you could just do the same??? I only play one client and i have no problems with campers with multiple clients on.....a guy wants to spend 2x 3x the time/resource than me on this game....sure he deserves more than me because of his dedication....i got no problem with that...
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Re: Boss camping improvement
why its unfair. u can spend around 5hours to make varlok camper too. anyway u should fight for varlok its usually heavy pvp when varlok spawn.
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Re: Boss camping improvement
Dude those are all bad ideas to be honest. All bosses are not equal. They should not all be the same. Sorry man but this isn't about being fair. It's about advantages. If someone wants to camp a boss for 5 hours instead of something else, what it that to you? You could use that 5 hours to do something else and probably make more money than one person camping a boss.
Kenzaki
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Re: Boss camping improvement
Nobody in the title of the post suggested ever had a problem with someone who wants to camp a boss for 5 hours. I don't know where you got that idea from.
What is wrong is to leave a character afk on the boss spawning place, and it is wrong because it has no penalization whatsoever on the person leaving the camper. You kill the camper, you get chao and the camper just teleports back, so actually, it benefits the strategy of leaving campers instead of actively camping the boss.
My suggestion was to randomize the spawning point all around the area, like the whole floor on TOI bosses' floors. If you want to find the boss, you have to go look for it.